Universal Access To All Knowledge
Home Donate | Store | Blog | FAQ | Jobs | Volunteer Positions | Contact | Bios | Forums | Projects | Terms, Privacy, & Copyright
Search: Advanced Search
Anonymous User (login or join us)
Upload

Reply to this post | Go Back
View Post [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Dec 6, 2010 12:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

Here’s another classic, I think (though I’m not terribly good at knowing what’s “well known” and what isn’t) …

This 12/6/73 Dark Star is a monster at 43’28” and may be the Longest Dark Star Ever. I guess it depends on how you count; 5/11/72 could be discounted for being broken up by drums. (When I did the math -- hey, I’ve been down with a nasty cold, gotta entertain myself somehow-- the non-drum parts on 5/11 came to 42’15,” if you also count the Phil-n-Bill section.)

There’s also a contender on 8/28/69, which I haven’t heard yet. It seems to be broken up by the Eleven (though the DS jam part might run 53-plus minutes) so I guess that one depends on (a) whether some of the jams are really Eleven-ish or DS-ish, and (b) whether it matters that it wasn’t, technically, the GD but a non-Bob, non-Pig lineup with Howard Wales sitting in.

Personally I find it rather appropriate to DS that you can’t actually figure out the “longest one.” Cue Twilight Zone music … Still, if push comes to shove I’ll vote for this one for entirely partisan reason: Because it’s in Cleveland, and Cleveland needs all the reasons for pride it can get.

OK, hands up, all you former and current NE Ohioans! What? Not that many? Well, then, I will helpfully provide a little context for the rest of you folks. Get in your time machine. Close your eyes. When you open them, you’re in:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY

OK. Now go into Public Hall, in the dark empty heart of downtown. Trust me, you really will be in the mood for a long Dark Star. This one is definitely Kafka at the Jazz Bar. (A northeast Ohio winter will do that to a bunch of visiting Californians.) It starts out as almost a quiet meditative stroll, minus the DS theme and with a lot of nice input from Keith, before making a detour through an industrial landscape of aliens-in-the-warehouse noise and then jamming away at melt-that-dirty-snow speed:

http://www.archive.org/details/gd73-12-06.sbd.kaplan-fink-hamilton.4452.sbeok.shnf

But perhaps the brightest gem in the show is another tune that’s supposedly Longest Ever: Here Comes Sunshine, 15’38” and worth every sparkling, soulful, almost ghost-of-Pig bluesy minute. (Very kind of them, to give NE Ohio all that sunshine!) Like the rest of the night, it’s also wonderfully strong on the Phil. Oh, yeah, and the China > Rider is lovely, too …

Of course, there’s a bunch more to enjoy before you leave Public Hall and file back into the wintry dark, well prepared to take on the daily reality of life in …

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM

(My apologies to anyone on the Cleveland Tourism Board who happens to be an avid forum reader. Great town. What’s not to like about the home of kielbasa, Pere Ubu, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZty5DTmpMY&;feature=related , me of course (at the time of this DS anyway, not that I was there, LOL), the Longest HCS ever and the Longest (Maybe) Dark Star? Come to think of it, Ubu does sound as if they’d grafted some Phil-n-Ned – or maybe parts of this Dark Star -- onto garage punk.)




This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2010-12-06 08:36:20

This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2010-12-06 08:50:40

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Dec 7, 2010 10:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

I missed the original post . You are a funny lady , AR . A two for one . Funny Ha Ha and funny weird ( you are on the forum ;-)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: fireeagle Date: Dec 6, 2010 6:50am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

maybe not the longest (rotterdam?), but uniquely inverted for sure

http://www.archive.org/post/226247/12-06-73-any-thoughts-on-this-show

http://www.archive.org/post/283161/12-6-73-dark-star

This post was modified by fireeagle on 2010-12-06 14:50:38

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Dec 6, 2010 4:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

LOL, I've seen that Cleveland video before, and the only problem I have with it is I get confused, it looks quite a bit like Philly.

edit - OMG, the second one is even funnier. Philly isn't Detroit either :)

edit again - anyway on to the show ...

This post was modified by ringolevio on 2010-12-06 12:42:24

This post was modified by ringolevio on 2010-12-06 12:42:56

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: gwl123 Date: Dec 6, 2010 5:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

Good. Keep it up. From http://www.deccansojourn.com

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Dec 6, 2010 6:40am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

Unmitigated praise for an oft-maligned Cleveland-area show? I can see we're going to be fast friends.

I also hail from the great North Coast, and when I first discovered this place I sought out that show like it was the Holy Grail. I've listened to it dozens of times, and I agree with every word you said. I too would picture the cold, frightening Dark Star set against the bleak landscape of a Cleveland winter -- like a scene out of "Stranger than Paradise." But I also agree that the real highlights are Sunshine and China>Rider, which are among the best ever. Dark Star is more debatable -- it's certainly unique, but it also has many detractors who find its formlessness rather unappealing. Don't forget the Eyes> Stella!

Pere f'ing Ubu... Good call. I can remember seeing shows at Richfield in the 90s wondering if any Cleveland/Akron area musicians were going to show up... "Hey, look! It's Chrissie Hynde!"; or "Was that Michael Stanley playing guitar on Not Fade Away?"; or "It was cool seeing Joe Walsh play with the boys, but I wish he had laid of the booze."

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Dec 6, 2010 8:19am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

Used to see Pere Ubu in the Flats. (With my ever-useful fake ID card -- "Ohio Identity Card" or something -- from right behind the Woolworth's in Public Square.) Devo used to open for them. Pere Ubu was better :-)

Never saw the Dead at Richfield; wasn't in town anymore by the time they were playing such big places! But I'm always happy to champion shows from Blossom or Public Hall ... maybe not always for strictly musical reasons, but what the hey.

Your name makes total sense, btw :-)

This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2010-12-06 16:19:18

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Dec 6, 2010 8:23am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

I had a fake ID from the exact same place. I kid you not. I think it was in the old Euclid Arcade or something like that (though I chose the more exotic Illinois identification card option). It's really pathetic how well that sorry little piece of plastic worked!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Dec 6, 2010 8:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

That's hysterical. Yes, I think it was the Euclid Arcade! Guess they had a good, long-running business model.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Darkstarz117 Date: Dec 8, 2010 11:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

Great post. At this moment I am living in Cleveland and have listened to 12-6 pretty regularly over the years.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: clementinescaboose Date: Dec 6, 2010 9:21pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

yes AR! i'm really glad you were on top of today's TDIH, because this is one of my favorite shows EVER, and i totally forgot about it!

i can't really add too much to what was said, other than i think this show is one of the finest of the year, and has always been in my personal top 5 of 1973.

of course the Dark Star is wonderful but (not to be too redundant here), i think really the HCSS is the highlight of this show. i would put it up against 12/19/73 any day of the week. i like the way you put it: channeling the blues of Pig! i have long touted this as the finest-ever performance of the song (of course this is all imho) and i think it is very deserving of all the recognition it can get!


Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: snori Date: Dec 6, 2010 12:56am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

This is one of my favourite shows. The first set is bouncy and fun, smiles all the way and then one the very best China/Riders. The second set has all you could want, a great selection played tight and loose at the same time. Pick your own highlights. 1974 began in December 1973.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Dec 6, 2010 4:38am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

"Tight and loose at the same time" ... yeah, I was looking for a way to describe a few things, like the C>R, and I think you nailed it! Also, the idea of '74 starting in December 73 really captures it for me.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Dec 6, 2010 5:05am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

The Rottterdam Dark Star is the longest at 47:10. The drums are most definately an intrinsic part of that Star, so I dont consider it split the way the 65 minute Dark Star from 8/28/69 (technically a Hartbeats show) is split by an entirely separate Eleven Jam...

http://www.archive.org/details/gd69-08-28.sbd.lepley.4234.sbeok.shnf

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Dec 7, 2010 10:31am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

CH , someone needs to correct Wiki ( 3rd P under history ),

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Star_%28song%29

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Dec 7, 2010 4:33pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

Done!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Dec 6, 2010 5:36am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

Yeah, I know, that's probably the most logical conclusion. Kinda hard to argue that it's really a "Drums" section in Rotterdam. But still, hey, there's that little bit of ambiguity to keep Cleveland in the running ... and they lost Lebron James. Give them the pity vote :-)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: duckpond74 Date: Dec 6, 2010 9:25am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

Nice post AR, especially the line "(My apologies to anyone on the Cleveland Tourism Board who happens to be an avid forum reader. Great town. What’s not to like about the home of kielbasa, Pere Ubu, ...)" - still smiling. I really like their major Art Museum - nice, interesting collection and beautiful building on the inside.

Used to be that Dark Stars and Other ones were not listed on tapes as broken up with 'Drums' or 'Phil and Bill' and the like.

I agree with Cliff that with Rotterdam '72, the drums are integral, as with Paris 5/3 and 4. The also goes for the Bass Solo and Bass and Drums from Paris 5/3 which are indeed integral to the development of that night's multi-faceted Other One. The same could be said of countless Dark Stars and Other Ones from '70 through '74.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: bluedevil Date: Dec 6, 2010 11:15am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

I'll second the kudos for the Art Museum. I saw Christian McBride play a show there, so they also get some good music in there and the summer I lived there I enjoyed the free concerts at the RNR HOF - my one and only chance to see Pop Staples (with Mavis and the gals).

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: duckpond74 Date: Dec 7, 2010 7:27am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

BD, I'm with you on their concerts, as the Museum's music programming has been exceptional for the last few years from what I can tell. I've been following it from afar and wishing I could be there for more than a few of their shows. . . . 'in the strangest of places . . .'

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Dec 6, 2010 11:04am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

And let's not forget Cleveland's #1 contribution to global cuisine: Stadium Mustard!

http://www.notmartha.org/archives/2009/05/13/cleveland-stadium-mustard/

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Dec 6, 2010 7:49pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

And it's Number One contribution to art and literature ... Spaceman Spiff! You do know, of course, that Calvin and Hobbes are from Chagrin Falls?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Dec 6, 2010 8:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

Yes, the unfortunately named Chagrin Falls. So much negativity in two little words.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: duckpond74 Date: Dec 7, 2010 7:26am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

Let's not forget the recently departed Harvey Pekar.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Dec 7, 2010 8:21am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

Yes, absolutely. Really sad to have lost him. I knew him and Joyce a bit way back when. As did a lot of people. Brilliant guy, great artist. Truly a local (and national) institution ...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: snow_and_rain Date: Dec 6, 2010 11:16am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

By the way -- The newer Charlie Miller transfer of 12/6/73 crushes the source in the OP. Louder, cleaner and more complete.

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1973-12-06.sbd.miller.105560.flac16

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: B. Stockwell Date: Dec 6, 2010 7:46pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: TDIH: Longest Ever Dark Star?

I want to thank everyone in the GD Forum for all the knowledge and devotion they've shown. I'm working on a film using "Dark Star" as its fuel. I mean, I'm creating a film of images to accompany a performance of the work. With all the "Dark Star"s out here - IN here, I mean, in the Archive - it was a relief to see continued references to the Portland Memorial Coliseum performance of 1973-06-24. That's the one I'm building my film on top of. I'll post it here in a month or so and I'll let everyone know about it. I've just finished a five-year film project and, as a reward, I'm doing the "Dark Star" film I've had in my head for the last few years. If you search the Archive for "Gustav Mahler: Abschied 1909" you'll get an idea of what I'm capable of. Again, thanks everyone for pointing me in the right direction.

Terms of Use (10 Mar 2001)